Posts by joey jojo

51

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

joey jojo

Just wanted to add. The debate about this springs, in part from the Nicene Creed. The use of Greek philosophy was being used to clarify scriptural understanding. The debate was around the question of - what is the essence of god?

They were considering the Greek words ousia - substance and homoousios - essence, neither of which appear in the bible, to explain the relationship between the father and the son.

To me (not an expert), this seems a lot like they were trying to use the 'science' of the time to answer a doctrinal question. The 'science' they were using was flawed from the start and that probably goes a long to explaining why the subject is still divisive after almost 2000 years.

It didnt make sense then and still doesnt make sense.

Whether you believe one or the other is personal choice. There is no objective evidence - there is only faith, which requires no proof.

51

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

joey jojo

Sea Breeze
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory". - 1 Tim. 3: 16 KJV
If Jesus isn't "God manifest in the flesh" he could not have resurrected himself from the dead and the whole thing is a hoax, and Jesus is a liar and the worst of the worst charlatans.

A child can manifest qualities/ traits of their parents but they remain seperate entities. A child cannot be their own parent. This scripture doesnt prove that jesus is automatically God.

Just for the record, I dont believe any of it, I just wanted to point out the weakness of your argument.

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

joey jojo

The 19th century was a time of pseudoscience,medical quackery and blatant, un-regulated false advertising.

Combine this with the growing technology that allowed information to be spread faster and you have the perfect environment for charlatans to take advantage of unsuspecting and trusting people.

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

joey jojo

Biden should have stepped aside earlier if they wanted Harris to have a better chance. Israel and Russia have taken full advantage of a perceived political softness of Biden - who was virtually retired while still in office.

The pendulum of the world has shifted to the point where I think that a lot of people who previously despised Trump are happy to see him win.

20

JW WOMAN VOLUNTEER CRUSHED BY A WALL AT A KINGDOM HALL PROJECT

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/1skm8riz7qc?si=ww3ej9orl_91db4w.

the construction of a new jehovah’s witnesses kingdom hall in cybinka, poland, has once again shed light on the watchtower organization’s relentless drive to expand its real estate empire on the backs of unpaid, vulnerable volunteers.

every day, around 40 jehovah’s witnesses show up at the construction site, some traveling long distances, not for pay or proper protection, but to fulfill a sense of “spiritual duty” instilled by the organization.

joey jojo

@joey jojo: you clearly have never been at a quick build. I still have the booklet

How old is your booklet?

I used to work on a lot of quick builds back in the day and I agree, back then standards were lower. Things have changed. I cant imagine just anyone can roll up and grab a power-saw these days.

'Local laws' regarding building are usually very strict in developed countries. Insurance is more expensive and has more restrictions. Workplace injury fines for organisations can run into hundreds of thousands of dollars easily. Maximum penalties are in the million of dollars and may include jail time.(At least here in Australia).

20

JW WOMAN VOLUNTEER CRUSHED BY A WALL AT A KINGDOM HALL PROJECT

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/1skm8riz7qc?si=ww3ej9orl_91db4w.

the construction of a new jehovah’s witnesses kingdom hall in cybinka, poland, has once again shed light on the watchtower organization’s relentless drive to expand its real estate empire on the backs of unpaid, vulnerable volunteers.

every day, around 40 jehovah’s witnesses show up at the construction site, some traveling long distances, not for pay or proper protection, but to fulfill a sense of “spiritual duty” instilled by the organization.

joey jojo

My understanding is that their safety standards meet or exceed accepted industry standards. All volunteers have to attend safety inductions and supervisors actually know what they are talking about, due to the high number of qualified tradesmen in the org and the training they get.

Maybe they were rushing, who knows? But accidents can happen on even the safest building sites.

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

joey jojo

Revelation is presented as a vision and it reads almost like watching a movie or a play. Without any other context, or reading anything into it, ' the lamb'- Jesus and Michael- ' the archangel ' are 2 different players in the story.

Jesus is referred to, over and over as the lamb. If ' the lamb' did battle with the dragon, there is no reason not to make that clear. But the book clearly describes a separate entity - Michael.

In Rev 19:11, there is another character, identified as the word of god and king of kings who seems to be Jesus, who defeats the beast and false prophet.

I'm not going to stake my life on my interpretation. It just seems to read that way to me.

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

joey jojo

We know Michael is an archangel and as such he has his angels under his command.
Jesus comes with an archangel's voice and commands his angels to gather his chosen ones together.

There are a lot of 'characters' that feature in revelation. Jesus is portrayed consistently as the slaughtered 'lamb', with 7 horns and 7 eyes. There are various types of angels, carrying out different roles, there are the 4 living creatures, and the list goes on.

Jesus having a voice 'like an archangel ' does not automatically imply that he is 'the' archangel, does it?

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

joey jojo

Question for Americans - do you expect the current wars to continue depending on who is elected?

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

joey jojo

Revelation seems to indicate pretty clearly that Michael and Jesus are 2 separate entities.